There is no intrinsic value to marriage, emotionally speaking - it's not the sort of thing I think is going to make my relationship feel different. I'm glad there are folks who are happy with or without it - but I'm not one of them. If nothing else, living together DOES Put a great deal of pressure on the relationship that otherwise would not be there if both parties were married not saying this is the reason I'd like to get married. In our respective families and culture, married and unmarried couples are treated differently and that can add layers of pressure.
Bigguy02 makes a good point. I really wish women would not be under this tremendous social pressure to get married. I wish a woman past, say, 30, who is still unmarried and childless and not engaged were not generally treated like less of a person just because some guy didn't validate her with a marriage certificate -- and the assumption being, of course, that she wasn't good enough for anyone.
I wish officious do-gooders in women's families and writers of so-called "self-help" books didn't browbeat women into lowering their expectations and settling for somebody, anybody, just so they could escape the stigma of being unmarried. I wish women weren't slammed for being unmarried while, at the same time, being slammed for their anxiety over marriage.
I think women's lives would be a lot happier and more enjoyable if they weren't socialized to take this relentlessly goal-oriented approach to relationships and didn't spend their best years hunting after status that gives women few benefits but greatly increases their responsibilities. Alright, that's the end of this morning's feminist rant. However deplorable the reasons, marriage is an important goal to a lot of women and being unmarried is stigmatizing.
And for those women, a few tips are in order. It goes without saying that men are much less eager to get married in general not being under the same social pressures an' all. At the same time, however, men are generally very attached to domestic routines and hate to upset the apple cart, preferring to keep the balance by almost any means, up to and including getting married despite not really wanting to.
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That's what explains a lot of those marriages that occur at the end of 7 years of dating and living together, followed by a 5-year engagement. In fact, one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is that there is a substantial number of people, most of them men, who get married just so they don't have to rent an apartment and call a van to move their stuff. Waiting so many years to get married isn't just unconscionably long; but proposals that finally ensue are insincere and marriages that follow quickly turn miserable and usually lead to a divorce.
Contrary to what movies and books about roping misbehaving men into marriage tell us, being legally bound does not make any problems between two people work themselves out somehow; instead, it magnifies and exacerbates them. And, marriage should be a means to an end, not an end in itself so, curse all those "self-help" books and articles that present marriage as an accomplishment that ends a process on a happy note.
In terms of numbers, I would say that if there is no proposal after a couple of years, and no serious, goal-oriented talk of marriage, and the woman in the relationship wants to get married, it is time for her to move on. It would be unwise for her to wait any longer, and even she finally received a proposal after a few more years, it would be unwise of her to marry the guy at that point.
Plus, engagements should be reasonably short, with the date set at the time of the engagement or shortly thereafter. So, if it's two years in and no cigar or at least cigar smoke, I'd say she should leave without explaining the reason to avoid an insincere proposal.
I really don't want to debate whether women place too much importance on marriage. I care about you, RiverRunning, and I think you deserve more than what you're getting from your relationship right now. Your feelings about Jana's engagement and your desire that your guy be devoted and committed enough to marry you are not irrational. In fact, it's OK to think that marriage would change your relationship, and your feelings about it. Yes, there are social pressures and pragmatic reasons for getting married, but IMO it's not just a matter of "taking care of business.
I say this as a friend, but also as someone who's been married for almost 25 years. We plan to celebrate our anniversary with a dinner honoring our family and a mutual love that has grown deeper and richer over time. Our family is far from perfect - we've had money problems, job loss, health issues, in-law issues, kid problems, etc.
But at the end of the day, I can tell you with certainty that we'd do it all over again except maybe we'd be smarter about a few things - LOL. Life brings pretty much the same issues whether or not you're married, but there's a deep sense of gratitude and blessing that comes from having faced them with someone who pledged to stay with you for better or for worse.
And, for us, the "better" has far outweighed the "worse. I know quite a few people who think this is something they can't have or shouldn't expect these days.
Been with my SO for almost 4 years and still no ring
But it can happen, and there's nothing wrong with wanting it for yourself. Last edited by dawgfan; 25th October at 3: I would seriously discuss marriage at 1. I am 9 months in with my boyfriend, living together for 2 months and not even a mention of proposal.
We are in early 30's. I think it depends so much on age and where you are in life.
I would say this though; I would never want to have to pressure, plead or push a man to marry me. I feel like the desire to marry needs to actively be there for both partners in order to have a successful marriage. I know you said it in a "tongue and cheek" way but if your bf is resisting getting his mortgage approval, signing up for grad school and proposing I would take his lack of actions as a serious sign. I think it depends greatly on the age of the couple concerned.
A very young couple teenagers or college kids obviously shouldn't expect to get married within a couple of years. But once you hit your late twenties, I think years is enough time to decide if you want to marry someone or not. Plus at that age you can't really afford to waste more than three years on someone who won't commit! So to my way of thinking: Less than one year is too soon because you don't know the person well enough, between years is ideal, and if a relationship went past the three year mark without a proposal, I'd get restless and would be on my way out the door before our fourth anniversary Unfortunately, some people know for sure that they don't want to marry their partner, but string them along because it's convenient and comfortable and they currently don't have anyone else.
This is why you need a cut-off date of around three years - give the relationship a decent chance but move on if it obviously isn't going anywhere. Also I think that moving in with someone is a bad idea. I have met many men and women who have missed the golden window of opportunity and are now picking up the pieces. Many women waste precious time on a doomed relationship then, in their late 30s, find themselves desperate for a baby and looking for a new partner.
Tragically, many women waste precious time on a relationship that has led nowhere and, in their late 30s or early 40s, find themselves desperate for a baby and looking for a new partner. Others put all the pressure they can muster on their man, have the wedding of their dreams and then find it turn to ashes because they haven't addressed the underlying problems that kept them from the altar in the first place.
You may think he's the one. But he views the relationship purely as one of convenience. He loves you, the sex is fantastic and you offer him all the security he needs. But it's only for the time being. He doesn't want to commit. You might be able to win him over, but you'll always know it wasn't his choice. That's exactly what happened to Emma, a GP. She and James met when she was fresh out of medical school. But after four years, James still hadn't proposed. So Emma started dropping hints.
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Instead, she set up scenarios to set the scene for a proposal. She arranged a romantic picnic on the riverbank, a trip to the ballet, and a weekend in Paris. Putting his heart and soul into the business, he saw his relationship with Emma as convenient and fun. But because he was afraid of losing her, he finally took the bait and proposed. After eight years, Harrison Ford finally married Calista Flockhart earlier this year. They'd been together seven years and Emma, then 34, was ecstatic.
With the ring on her finger, she wanted to start a family. It was too much for James, In hindsight, she wishes she'd asked James sooner what his intentions were. Your partner may fear that while you say you love him warts and all, you haven't actually seen just how ugly those warts are. And if you knew, you'd run away. Or he might have been scarred by his parents' divorce and fears history repeating itself.
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Anthony, a year-old financial adviser, saw his parents split up when he was a child and vowed he'd never marry. But his girlfriend, Hannah, 32, a marketing director, had spent her life dreaming of a white wedding. Her parents were happily married. It's what she wanted and she made no secret of it. Anthony was equally upfront that he'd never wed, but as the years passed and Hannah saw all her friends getting married, she became desperate.
They'd been together five years when Hannah gave Anthony an ultimatum. Marry me or leave. Terrified of losing her, Anthony proposed. But as they said their vows, Hannah looked into his eyes and could read the reluctance.
(Closed) Been with my SO for almost 4 years and still no ring
But I wasn't happy and neither was he. Within 12 months their marriage was over. They couldn't get past the resentment they both felt. They need cast-iron proof it's for the best before they'll change job, move house and certainly before they'll get married. Barbara is in this position. She has been with Paul for four years and he is using one excuse after another not to get married. But, aged 34, Barbara wants a family and she deserves to know how committed Paul is.